To make this even a deeper nested loop, he quotes Richard Foster from "Reasons to Be Glad". I thought it said a lot about triathlon training and ultimately about life:
- The disciplined person is the person who can do what needs to be done when it needs to be done. The disciplined person is the person who can live in the appropriateness of the hour. The extreme ascetic (rigorously abstinent, I had to look it up) and the glutton have exactly the same problem: they cannot live appropriately; they cannot do what needs to be done when it needs to be done. The disciplined person is the free person.
Maxwell goes on to point out the irony of gaining freedom by containing your emotions with discipline. And as I told Matt while running up the hill in the Tango in 32 degree (Celsius) weather, it is all about the delayed gratification, which is the only way to develop discipline. The discipline part is new, I only knew the about the delayed gratification in August.
Thanks for listening.
7 comments:
I like the quote. Although, I feel that I am proof that just because you are disciplined in one area of your life, it doesn't mean you are in every area of your life.
I don't doubt that statement because I know I am not disciplined in everything I do, but (and I don't want to get to philisophical) I try to create some discipline in what are the priorities. So, family and tri are becoming the tops.
I cannot agree with the ascetic aspect of the quote. Some ascetics do exactly what needs to be done, and with less than most other people. Who is this guy to say what needs to be done? If you live an ascetic lifestyle, you are doing exactly what needs to be done at all times.
Actually, that quote sounds a lot like Hinduism. Do what needs to be done in this moment. Sometimes what needs to be done is to live like an ascetic.
I think he's just making excuses for not having the discipline to give it all up. Which is more appealing to the majority.
What is more appealing to the majority is to be the glutton. More stuff, consume more, earn more. I know in this circle it may not be the case, that we are well adjusted in our concept of things and the difference between needs and wants, but . . .
The quote is really hitting to the core of where is your time spent. You may be visualizing a disciplined person as one who can't handle change. Really, a well disciplined person is most ready for change. The book (which you haven't read, so quotes can be seen out of context) is clearly saying if you discipline yourself to accomplish or handle things, then at that moment when things don't go well or a family member needs you or a co-worker has a crisis, you are available because the priorities of the day or week or month have been accomplished. It is not doing what needs to be done in the moment, but knowing what the priority is and doing that so you are prepared for moments especially with others.
Take that to a triathlon, if you have worked hard, discipline your workouts, put the time in and gotten sleep you will be ready for the race even if you have a bad night's sleep the week of the event or a difficult time with a co-worker.
The ascetic part of the quote is referring to an extreme ascetic, not a disciplined person like my grandmother who would rather wear it out, use it up, and repair it twenty times before the decision is made to buy a new one, if you really needed it in the first place.
It refers to someone who believes the end all be all is escaping worldly things for spirtual things. I, you, we were born into this world therefore we need to understand that God, others, and then ourselves is the priority list. Extreme ascetics believe that not being in this world is the higher calling, so relationships as I stated above would not be a reason for them to be disciplined, only their perceived notion of who they are or want to be is the reason for the ascetism.
I would or could argue that being set apart in the world, not out of the world is the highest calling. Disciplined people in my life who can stop what they are doing without it being a crisis are those who I want to emulate or be close to.
I have some political views that may need panning out, or we can stay on philosphy or religion. :)
Someone asked if they say "You are an IronMan at a 70.3 race". Here was POC's answer.
No, 'cos you're not.
Zen Answer:
If you could be half an ironman which half would you be?
Buddhist Answer:
In the fullness of time, you will become one.
Islamic answer:
If it happened, it is the will of Allah
Catholic answer:
if you didn't finish, you didn't deserve it.
Presbyterian Answer:
It was bound to happen, sooner or later, to somebody.
Lutheran: If shit happens, don't talk about it.
Judaism: Why does this shit always happen to us?
Creationism: God made all ironmen.
Secular Humanism: Shit evolves. It is the survival of the fittest.
Existentialism: Shit doesn't happen; shit IS.
TEVA Existentialism: Go. Do. Be.
Sinatra Existentialism: Do Be Do Be Do.
Stoic answer: This shit is good for me.
Hare Krishna: Shit happens, rama rama.
Agnostic: Shit might have happened; then again, maybe not.
Atheism : I can't believe this shit!
Nihilism: You finished? No shit.
Okay, I'll admit I'm taking it out of context, having no context to put it in, but what better way to debate a quote on its own merits than out of context?
And to clarify, perhaps you misunderstood my intent in the last pseudo-sentence I wrote, which was that it is more appealing for the majority not to give up all their worldly goods, so we are on the same page there.
I am still reading your extended explanation as a version of living in the moment, a very Zen concept, indicating that you can do the right thing when it needs to be done because you have taken care of all the other things that needed to be done. Now, whether you take it from a Christian or Buddhist or Hindu perspective doesn't change the actual human behavior, only the internal spiritual connection that motivates the behavior. I am totally in agreement that gluttony and consumerism are symptoms of a failing species, but...
I still don't like using the term ascetic negatively. Heck, that is the foundation of many Christian sects, and is exemplified in Monasteries around the globe, both Christian and non-Christian. They are taking the concept of being "Not of this world" to the extreme to be sure, but are they somehow unprepared to do what is right? Is that not what we are told to do? I am also in agreement that being "in it" but not "of it" is a high calling, but can't one be ascetic and in the world, engaged in fulfilling and meaningful personal relationships at the same time? I like to think so.
I think you should write the Christian Triathlete Book. Is there one of those? The body is a temple. Keep it holy. Do triathlons.
Very well said but I have to still clarify I am not using the term ascetic negatively, I am saying "EXTREME ASCETIC". Zealots of the trade. Amish people may be considered Extreme, or monks living on top of the hill. Of course the bible is full of zealots, but typically despite their want to be left alone God pulls them into the fray, Isiah, Jeremiah, Jonah, Daniel, twelve disciples and most of all Paul. I didn't list Jesus, because obviously he was ascetic, even though he did define the old testament rules different than the Zealots and Pharises of his day, who were self proclaimed "Extreme Ascetics". So, OK then, I'm done for now.
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